A Response to the Video:
by Bob Pickle
Salvation, Cont.; Conditional Immortality
#159: Conditional immortality flies in the face of two Scriptures. Actually, it doesn't, unless we want to say that the Bible contradicts itself.
While conditional immortality seems to fly in the face of two Scriptures, innate immortality, the idea that there is something in us that will not and cannot die, that not even God can kill, flies in the face of 265 verses found in 158 chapters taken from 35 books of the Bible (see "Immortality: Conditional or Innate?" at http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers).
To illustrate the problem we are faced with, let us look at one concept that Mr. Martin is trying to drive home, one with which we agree, that we are saved by faith and not by works. Yet this, it would seem, "flies in the face" of a passage from James:
Yet Paul clearly says in Galatians 2:16 that we are justified by faith apart from works of the law. Does the Bible contradict itself, or is there a way to harmonize the two passages? Every Bible-believing Christian should agree that there must be a way to harmonize James with Paul, and of course there is.
Mr. Martin has referred to two texts: 2 Corinthians 5:8 and Philippians 1:23. These must be harmonized with the 265 verses that seem to say something different. Since it is easier to harmonize two verses with 265 rather than 265 with two, let us look at the two first.
The context of 2 Corinthians 5:8 gives us an idea of what Paul is talking about:
Paul in these verses longs for the day when he will receive a glorified body, an event Christians typically identify with the resurrection at the second coming. He clearly does not want to be a disembodied spirit, for he does not want to be "naked." Rather, he wants to be clothed upon with the new body he calls a "house." Now for the next verses:
When the time comes for us to be absent from our present body and receive our new body, we will literally be present with the Lord. There is nothing [p. 108] necessarily incompatible here with the idea that the dead await the resurrection in their graves.
Let us look now at the context of Philippians 1:23.
This passage does appear to put Paul with Christ at death. However, two points should be noted about both of these passages: 1) Neither passage says that those who have died are not really dead. 2) Neither passage says that the dead are conscious. Thus neither passage really contradicts the following crystal clear verses:
Thus the Bible teaches that the dead do not praise God, cannot think, and do not know anything. The fact is that neither 2 Corinthians 5:8 nor Philippians 1:23 contradicts these simple, plain, Bible truths.
Another basic problem with the doctrine of innate immortality is the way the Bible uses the Greek and Hebrew words for "soul" and "spirit." There are 157 verses using these words in ways that just don't fit (see "What Is the Soul and Spirit?" posted at http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers). For example, when the second plague is poured out, "every living soul died in the sea" (Rev. 16:3). If souls are immortal and can't die, why are these souls dying? And why is it said that whales and fish are "souls"?
265 verses and 157 verses. Some passages are used in both documents, but between the two, there are a total of 411 different verses cited.
The documentation package under "Point 77" merely gives photocopies of the two verses Mr. Martin cited. It makes no attempt at all to explain any of the 411 other Bible verses that indicate that man does not have innate immortality.